*Zeb vs. Emily Nowell Debate

EDIT (By Tom aka Fish Head) for googlers:
This is the old debate. All the stuff from it has been copied to the new forum and the new debate at:
http://eragonhq.co.cc/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=14

Thanks.

Okay, so rule number one... DONT POST HERE UNLESS YOU ARE EMILY NOWELL OR ME. Or Sam. I'm appointing her unoficial moderater of the debate. Sam, please just us in order (I doubt we'll need it, but I thought I'd appoint a mod just to make it more fair). Though, Sam, please don't comment on the debate here. If Sam or anyone else wants to comment about the debate, please use the "*Zeb vs Emily Nowell Debate Comentary" thread and post there, NOT HERE.

Now that we've got that out of the way... basically Emily and I are debating about Eragon's future love interest. If this debate turns out to be interesting and entertaining for the rest of you guys (which I suspect it will), we (or maybe me vs Sam or Emily vs Case or somthing like that...) will most likely do more. Anyways, I think that this will be fun.

Eragon has not shown any interest in Nasuada. she is but his liege lord and nothing more.

Though Eragon has not yet developed many romantic feelings for Nasuada, it is clear that she is begining to like him. And besides, Arya shows NO romantic feelings for Eragon. It is clear that Eragon will get over his petty infatuation with Arya, and realize that true love lies with Nasuada.

i see two things wrong with that. 1) Nasuada may be growing to like Eragon, but Eragon shows no interest in her and 2) in Brisingr Arya is beginning to enjoy Eragon's company. Arya was also in love with someone who was a great companion until he died.

so Zeb, don't have a reply?

sorry, I've been reeeally busy.
Where was I?

Ah yes. Please read this essay I found while doing some research. It takes a very litterary perspective, and I completely agree. (I bolded some things that I found most true and interesting)

______________________________________________________________________

Arya is a secondary main character, but Elva and Angela are third-tier characters who are more interesting than Arya. People want Arya to be more interesting than she is designed to be. Arya's role is similar to Brom's role as it pertains to Rider training and guardianship. Arya has no intention of getting intimately involved with Eragon, who is like unto a child to her in need of some guardianship now that Brom is dead. Arya shuffles her guardianship between the two young'ns Eragon and Nasuada. Arya goes to which ever one is in need of her most at any given time, but she is swung off of Eragon's story blocks.

It has been a long journey for Arya, but Paolini did not develop that journey --he's just simply informing us of it. Arya's 100 years old, so I imagine she has a plethora of backstory to share both good and bad --just like Brom and Murtagh and Oromis and Angela, and Galbatorix, etc. We aren't privy to Arya's actual journey {zeb's comment: See, Arya isn't near as main a character as Nasuada! We are right along with Nasuada on her journey, while Arya is just a character that we see. We actually get into Nasuada's head so we can really understand her, unlike Arya.} . We're just informed of it to move the story along about Eragon.

The 3 main characters that Paolini has deliberately shown us as being the story HUBS are Eragon, Nasuada, and Roran. EVERY other character swings off of those 3. Eragon, Nasuada, and Roran have their own story blocks independent of each other. Arya, Murtagh, and Orik are presented only when the story block is immediately talking about Eragon. We weren't privy to "the how" Murtagh was kidnapped by The Twins, transported back to Galbatorix, exposed to a dragon egg that hatched for him, forced into servitude to Galbatorix, trained in the dark arts, etc. We were just simply informed of what took place when next we saw Murtagh with Eragon.

Who is swinging off of Eragon's character?
Saphira, Brom (secrets he's left behind), Arya, Murtagh, Orik, Ra'zac, Oromis, Angela (Solembum swings off of her.)

Who is swinging off of Roran's character?
Katrina, Ra'zac, Cavahall Villagers

Who is swinging off of Nasuada's character?
The Varden (includes the Council of Elders and the magic society), Elva (courtesy of Eragon), The Empire (includes the Black Hand Assassins and Galbatorix, who is an ominous character not yet really presented but swings off of everyone), King Orin, Urgal allies, the dwarves, the elves, any other nation in opposition to Galbatorix, now the Cavahall Villagers (courtesy of Roran), and let us not forget Eragon, though he is the overall main character, swings off of Nasuada now that she is his liege lord.

Eragon's training, heart break by Arya, and cure of Durza's curse came about because Nasuada "ordered" him to go to the elves. Nasuada's ascention to power not over the Varden, but over the Council of Elders is because of Eragon's pledge of fealty to Nasuada. Both Eragon's and Nasuada's growth have been independently interdependent. {see, they really rely on each other! If Arya were to leave, Eragon would be upset for a while because of his little infatuation with her, but Nasuada is a character who is intamently linked to Eragon. They will fit perfectly together!}

Roran is already promised to Katrina, leaving Eragon and Nasuada to gradually discover and develop their epic romance.
______________________________________________________________________

See? It all fits!!! And this is from a factual litterary perspective, not just a wishy-washy "well I think she likes him" perspective.

Your turn!

Aha! Look at this awesome quote I found on page 245 in Brisingr:

"Nasuada took his arm and, while they spoke in comfortable tones, guided his steps as they ambled through the sea of tents. Above, Saphira circled the camp, content to wait until they arrived at their destination before she went to the effort of landing. Eragon and Nasuada spoke of many things. Little of consequence passed between their lips, but her wit, her gaiety, and the thoughtfulness of her remarks charmed him. It was easy for him to talk to her and easier to listen, and that very ease caused him to realize how much he cared for her. Her hold on him far exceeded that of a liegelord over her vassal. It was a new feeling for him, their bond. Aside from his aunt Marian of whom he had but faint memories, he had grown up in a world of men and boys, and he had never had the opportunity to be friends with a woman. His inexperience made him uncertain, and his uncetainty made him awkward, but Nasuada did not seem to notice."

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

"and he had never had the opportunity to be friends with a woman"

He a friend of Nasuada. He may be charmed by her, but he still loves Arya.

I'll post again very soon, but I'm very busy right now.

Yeah, I'm busy too, but here's another quote:
This one's from Eldest page 586:

Nasuada turned her almond-shaped face towards him. "Eragon?" she whispered.

He was unprepared for how glad he was to see her. With a broad grin, he twisted his hand over his sternum in the elves' gesture of fealty and bowed. "At your service."

"Eragon!" This time Nasuada sounded delighted and relieved.

Nasuada was delighted Eragon wasn't dead.

*I really need to buy the Eragon books.*

I'm delighted you, Zeb, are on the forum, but that doesn't mean I love you.

At this point Nasuada seems more interested in Eragon than Eragon is in her.

Eragon may be charmed by Nasuada's wit and thoughtfulness of her remarks, but I've been charmed by many people's remarks and not been in love with them.

I know the 'delighted' quote doesn't hold much water, but the 'He was unprepared for how glad he was to see her' quote certainly has many implications, you can't deny it.

Also, from the Brisingr quote, "Eragon and Nasuada spoke of many things. Little of consequence passed between their lips, but her wit, her gaiety, and the thoughtfulness of her remarks charmed him. It was easy for him to talk to her and easier to listen, and that very ease caused him to realize how much he cared for her. Her hold on him far exceeded that of a liegelord over her vassal. It was a new feeling for him, their bond.", you can see that there is definately much more than freindship. AND, even if it was merely strong freindship (as you claim), a strong freindship is a neccissary basis for a good romantic relationship. I'm not going to walk up to a random girl on the street and say "I LOVE YOU". Once I've established a good freindly relationship and truly gotten to know her, then I may develop deeper feelings for her.

Eragon jumped straight into a (one-way) relationship with Arya, which clearly won't work out. Eragon and Nasuada already have a beautiful freindship, which will obviously blossom out into an amazing romance!!

are you going to reply? Or has my dazzling evidence stunned you beyond response?

I am going to respond, but at the moment I have computer problems and I am in Louisiana. The computer I am using is quite slow and annoying. I will respond soon though, bright, dazzling evidence man.

*secretly snickers*

EmilyNowell wrote:

I am going to respond, but at the moment I have computer problems and I am in Louisiana. The computer I am using is quite slow and annoying. I will respond soon though, bright, dazzling evidence man.

Alrighty, that's fine.

*pokes Sam* oh hush!

*snickers again* Dazzling man ;D

Phantasea wrote:

*snickers again* Dazzling man ;D

:-P The adjetive "dazzling" was modifying the noun "evidence", not "man". She said that the evidence was dazzling, so stop snickering, sam!!!

Whatever, you know you loved it

hahahahahahaha!! I am cracking up!! Y'all are funny.

Zeb, I'm still working on evidence. I've been really busy traveling and everything.

Sam, your input is hilarious. I thought some might take it the way you did, but I was using it to describe evidence and not man. I'm not sure I would consider Zeb "dazzling", but then again I don't know him that well.

*Okay, I just cleared out a bunch of our (me, Emily, and Tom) random off-topic posts. I'm trying to make this debate seem at least sort of official-ish.

Thanks Zeb. I really need to learn how to stay on topic.

Anyways, I would like to know how you explain Angela's prophecy. There are six parts of her prophecy, I will list them below.

1. Eragon will have an extraordinary long life.
(This is extemely possible because he is a Rider. The only thing that will change this is if he dies of blade or poison.)

2. The wandering path symbol predicts that Eragon will have many decisions in his future. Battles and great responsibility.
(As a Rider, Eragon has experienced these things.)

3. The lightning bolt, a terrible omen, predicts there will be a death of someone close to him.
(Brom dies and leaves Eragon with no immediate family.)

4. The sailing ship predicts that Eragon will leave Alagaesia forever.
(Obviously, this has not yet happened, but may at the end of the 4th book.

5. The rose blossom inscribed between the cresent moon symbolizes that Eragon will have an epic romance with someone of noble birth and heritage.
(This is where I would like to focus a bit more definition. Arya is of noble birth and heritage from what we know of. Whereas Nasuada was elected leader of the Varden as opposed to born into the position. I would like to know how you can explain that. So far Angela's prophecy has been right and if it continues to be, I truely belive Arya will be Eragon's love interest.)

6. Eragon will be betrayed by a family member according to the tree and hawthorn bones that are crossed.
(As we already know, Murtagh, Eragon's half-brother, betrayed Eragon to Galbatorix.)


I found this information in Eragon in the chapter The Witch and the Werecat.
I explained all sections of the porphecy because it shows most of the parts have come true and we must await the next book to see the rest.

Oh, that's fine. We all go off topic every now and then (even me). That's what mods are for.

Sure, here's my version of the prophacy:

1. Eragon will have an extraordinary long life.

Obviously he will, because he's a rider. This also tells us that he won't die for a long time, so I'm sure he'll live through the end of the fourth book.

2. The wandering path symbol predicts that Eragon will have many decisions in his future. Battles and great responsibility.

As a Rider, Eragon has and will deal with many important decisions and such. Makes sense.

3. The lightning bolt, a terrible omen, predicts there will be a death of someone close to him.

HE'S HARRY POTTER!!!! No, actually this predicts that Brom, the only surviving member of his immidiate family, will die.

4. The sailing ship predicts that Eragon will leave Alagaesia forever.

This coresponds with the Deathwatch Dream (we need to discuss that somtime...). CP has said in an interveiw that the Deathwatch Dream will be the end of the last book, and it involves someone that seems to be Eragon (along with his wife, Nasuada) going onto a boat. Probably to leave Alagaesia.

5. The rose blossom inscribed between the cresent moon symbolizes that Eragon will have an epic romance with someone of noble birth and heritage.

The exact quote is as thus: "I see an epic romance in your future, one that will outlast empires, and it will be with a woman of noble birth who is wise, powerful, and beautiful beyond compare." So here are the requirements for Eragon's love interest: Noble birth, Wise, Powerful, and Beautiful beyond compare.

Wise, CHECK! She has made many wise decisions to keep the Varden alive, and near the begining of Eldest Eragon deems Nasuada "wise beyond her years". There's way more evidence for Nasuada's wisdom, but it's really so obvious, so I won't delve into it.

Powerful, CHECK! As the leader of the Varden, she is the post powerful human alive, except Eragon and Galby.

Beautiful beyond compare, CHECK! In Brisingr, Eragon describes Nasuada as (sorry, I can't remember the exact quote and I don't have time to check with the book) stunningly beautiful, and much more beuatiful then anyone nearby. He said somthing like that. Now, that clearly makes her beautiful beyond compare. BUT, what is very interesting, is that Arya was standing nearby when Eragon thinks this. So this means the he considers Nasuada more beautiful than Arya!! HAHA, TAKE THAT YOU E/A SHIPPERS!!! sorry...

Anyways, Noble birth, CHECK! Near the Battle of the Long Knives, Nasuada reveals that the leader of the tribe (you know, the people with dark skin, I can't remember what they're called...) is very closely related to her. I think that it says that the current leader is her uncle. (sorry I'm a bit shakey on the details, I really need to reread that part again...) So Nasuada is clearly of noble birth on her father's side. Since we don't know her mother's heritage, we do not know if she's double-royal, but she just might be.

So, Nasuada clearly fits all the requirements. Does Arya? No. She fits everything except the "Beautiful beyond compare". Eragon (as I told you up there) said that Nasuada was far more beautiful than anyone in her presence, including Arya. So, Arya is not as beautiful as Nasuada, which means that she does NOT fill this requirement. So, Arya obviously cannot be Eragon's love!!! HAHA I WIN!!!! ahem... sorry...

6. Eragon will be betrayed by a family member according to the tree and hawthorn bones that are crossed.

Murty betrayed Eragon. Simple.


So there's my version of the prophecy. Basically the same as yours, except for 5. I await your response.

I know you do not have time to find Nasuada's exact quote, but please, inform us of which book at least. I would like to find that and have not been able to search for everything.

I am now more prepared seeing I finally own Brisingr.

You said Nasuada was of noble birth and I'm sorry you are mistaken. Here is a quote from Brisingr, Trail of the Long Knives. (Page 98 if you have the hardback copy.)

"You ask me," said Nasuada, "to give positions of power to your fellow kinsman because you are my mother's cousin and because my father was born among you."

Fadawar is but a second cousin of the sorts to Nasuada and Ajihad was but born among the tribe. As may I add, Nasuada assumes command over the nomadic tribes because she won in the trial of the long knives. (Check out the stakes on page 101 hardback edition.) Nasuada is not of noble blood, of that I can be sure. I do not know much of her mother, but I do not think she was of royalty. The position of commander of the nomadic tribes is just like the Varden. You are either elected into the positoin or you earn it. This does not count as noble birth.

Please whenever you have time, I would at least like to know where (what book) you found the quote that Eragon thought Nasuada so beautiful.

To Everyone else: Please vote in the pole at the top of this page and give us some input in the commentary thread. Thanks.

Oh, you just wait. I'm typing out a lenthy (and rather amazing, if I do say so myself) response that will have you all begging for CP to write E/N (which he will). It's really long, and it may not be done tonight... I may have to post it tomorrow. idk. Anyways... I think it's really good. I hope you guys do too!

Edit: Okay, I have a huge homework overload so it won't be out tonight either.